how did blaming the victims become fandom's latest fad?

[erilyn]

I am so appalled and disgusted by this that I can't not say something.

Whatever your position on warnings, I hope we can all agree that commenting on a frank and brutal post from a survivor to contradict her account of the abuse she suffered and to say that the survivor is trying to paint herself as more of a victim IS GOING SO FAR INTO UNACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOUR THAT ANY LINES THAT WERE CROSSED ARE NO LONGER VISIBLE.

(Warning: Very explicit discussion of sexual assault and the nature, anatomy, cause & effect of triggers. Is itself triggery.)

Well, aukestrel did just that to impertinence. And then deleted her comment, the fucking coward.

And I hoped cynatnite was about as low as you could get, when she decided to lecture survivors on how best to manage their PTSD (even if they don't have it), based on research she did for her fanfic, and how her characters coped in said story.

If you don't find her behaviour utterly despicable, I'd love to hear why. Because I can't comprehend anyway that it would not be.

ETA: lcsbanana has done a far more comprehensive calling out of terrible behaviour.

Comments

[charliequinn.livejournal.com]

I always though AuKestral had a high opinion of herself, now I know she's a fucking cuntfaced bitch.

[erilyn.livejournal.com]

I've seen some appalling shit over the years in fandom, but the last few days have really explored some new lows.

[quiet000001.livejournal.com]

Wow.

Just. Wow.

I mean, I've been having some issues with the whole thing over the way some people *who are the very people I've learned in the past to be more sensitive about other people FROM* have been behaving, but that takes the cake. And the biscuit. And possibly also the cookies and the ice cream.

[erilyn.livejournal.com]

I am beyond disappointed in some people - women I've learned so much from and have looked up to.

[jocondite.livejournal.com]

I just - I don't even know how to say how low and disgusting that comment is. Invective fails me.

[erilyn.livejournal.com]

I want to break things, I'm so angry.

[shihadchick.livejournal.com]

And, wow, there's some more rage which I didn't think I could add to at this point. DDDDDDD: uggggggggggh.

Thank you for the link to LC's post, by the way, that was most helpful.

[erilyn.livejournal.com]

It's amazing how people can act even worse, even when you think you've hit the low point of human behaviour.

And by amazing I mean RAGE-INDUCING >:(

[i-naiad.livejournal.com]

I saw that earlier and it blew my mind. I've lost a lot of respect for a bunch of people in this.

And I don't tend to write stuff that needs the common warnings, but if I ever do I'll certainly be warning for it.

[erilyn.livejournal.com]

I'm gonna go watch some AI stuff to try to cleanse my brain.

[lastrega.livejournal.com]

But it's totally okay for her to get bucketloads of fannish sympathy on account of her completely inflated/made up stalking allegations. That's real victimhood, dontcha know.

[erilyn.livejournal.com]

http://www.journalfen.net/community/fandom_wank/1032898.html

and it hurts her very soul when people link to pairings she doesn't like without warnings.

[lydia-petze.livejournal.com]

I've been staying out of this one because - honestly, a) old wank is old and b) my visceral feeling about it all is I hate spoilers on fic like I hate them for anything else BUT I KNOW I DON'T HAVE ANY RIGHT TO BITCH ABOUT THIS AND I AM PERFECTLY OK WITH IT. Really. I can hate fic spoilers on the inside, which I can't control, and STFU about it on the outside, which I can. However, this shit has turned nasty and this is my first comment on it (this wank around, anyway).

Having said that, I've had a fairly low opinion of AuK for a very long time, ever since her holier-than-thou behaviour on the old dS lists - there are a few reasons I ended up leaving dS fandom, and her and her clique were near the top - but I was never really sure if it was just a personality issue. Hey, now at least I know I was right. Wow.

[erilyn.livejournal.com]

I never encountered her much, but I remember you guys having a crap time dealing with her.

And people can hide warnings, so that people can choose to be warned/spoiled or not. It's so easy, and makes everyone happy, and we can stop having pointless hurtful arguments over and over and over and over and over again.

[quiet000001.livejournal.com]

And another thing!

I have PTSD. I have been in therapy for PTSD. I feel this means I probably understand one aspect of what it can be like at a more intimate level than someone who is researched it for a fic.

I STILL WOULD NOT DREAM OF TELLING PEOPLE HOW TO MANAGE THEIR PTSD. Because what is effective for any given person varies tremendously. There is no one magical right way. Even the commonly accepted most effective treatment - cognitive behavior therapy - is often most functional employed as part of a larger treatment plan that may include life changes, medication, other forms of therapy, etc.

The most I would do would be to suggest to someone "hey, my therapist mentioned this that sounds like it might work for you, maybe you could ask yours about it?" or, in the case of someone I knew who was suffering but couldn't afford therapy, something along the lines of "this is a technique my therapist taught me as a coping mechanism for when I start feeling really panicky, maybe it will be helpful."

[erilyn.livejournal.com]

that's because you're a decent and reasonable human being.

[lemniskate.livejournal.com]

I'm shocked and saddened to see things like this - the names connected to unbelievable entitlement and intellectualization of the issue to the point of robotic, cruel response is a shock to me. A lot of these people, I've seen come to others' defense and basically act in moderate ways in the past are really disappointing me here.

[erilyn.livejournal.com]

unbelievable entitlement and intellectualization of the issue to the point of robotic, cruel response

brilliant summing up of some incredibly disappointing fail :(

[elegantcrimes.livejournal.com]

omg FAIL. That's basically all the words I have, holy hell! I am glad I don't write and I am lucky I don't have triggers is all I can say.

[erilyn.livejournal.com]

I like warnings, not because of triggers, but just so I can decide what I want to read at a given time. And they can be advertising, because a lot of people want to read material that others find to be triggery.

So there are lots of benefits, apart from acting decently towards those who do have triggers. I really don't get why anti-warnings people get their knickers in such a twist.

[indybrat.livejournal.com]

But I am one of those very few people in fandom who can follow a logic chain for more than three steps.

Yes, because the rest of us are are stupid morons. Who does she think she is. Sadly I always loved her dS fic and felt sorry for her about the whole 'stalking' incident. Right now I just feel anger and revolsion. I'm not sure I'll be able to read her fic again.

[erilyn.livejournal.com]

oh yeah, I can understand that feeling very well :(

[withdiamonds.livejournal.com]

Okay, I don't know who most of the people are here, but wow. I just went to aukestrel's lj just to see what she might be like, and did you see her post from today? All about Munchhausen's Syndrome by Internet and people who seek attention saying there's something wrong with them when there isn't. Wow, passive aggressive much?

So much fail and hurt and I've gotta say, this is one of the lowest, actually shocking things I've seen in MY 10 years in fandom.

[i-naiad.livejournal.com]

I saw that post and for the first time ever I wanted to know how to killfile or whatever it's called so that I never have to see anything she posts again.

[ravensilverwing.livejournal.com]

My head hurts! Ouch, what a huge fight? arguement? debate? bitchfight?

I found mara_snh insulting enough to leave a comment.

It's days like this that makes me step away from fandom and go back to reading books.

Thanks for the links though. I wasn't aware there were fandoms that didn't enforce warnings. Bad warnings suck but refusing to warn is slightly scary.

[erilyn.livejournal.com]

Sadly, people are people (are assholes) everywhere. I just get my hopes dashed when I expect better from fandom.

[krazykitkat.livejournal.com]

I'm just...why is there even discussion over warnings for rape? I thought that was one of the givens?

[erilyn.livejournal.com]

no, apparently it's a HUGE effort to add a warning and/or you're violating their artistic integrity and/or abuse victims are bullying them.

fucktards.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_bettina_/]

This whole thing made me disappointed in a lot of people, especially people who should know better. And then comments like that, it's just horrible.

[erilyn.livejournal.com]

seriously, I'm disappointed in probably the same people, what happened to their otherwise serviceable brains?

[giandujakiss.livejournal.com]

I'm really trying not to get more sucked into this than I already am, but I have to dip a toe in just to offer a basic correction. mara_sh is a survivor herself, and I believe that's where she was coming from with her comments. cynatnite, who has since deleted her comments, was the one who commented on the research she did for fic - the PTSD/story/character thing was not mara_snh.

Sorry, here via link from FList.

[erilyn.livejournal.com]

good point, thanks for the correction. mara_snh failed it up in different ways, as shown in lcsbanana's post.

[coreopsis.livejournal.com]

Wow, there are some really disgusting comments being made on that post. Why has nobody invented that machine that lets you slap someone through the internet, yet? Because that would come in so handy right now. *SMACK* Boy, I bet you'd have liked a warning for that, huh?

ETA: and by "you", I mean the smackees obviously, not you, erilyn. You're good people.

[erilyn.livejournal.com]

I totally understand, I've been lamenting the lack of such a device throughout this display of fail.

Thank you...

[luscious-words.livejournal.com]

I just posted this to impertinence's LJ.
I read this on DW a few days ago, and I thought you incredibly brave and courageous to publicly tell your story. I knew at the time I read it that this was in correlation to posting warnings on fanfic. But I read it as a victim of sexual abuse as a child myself. Your willingness to use your own situation to clarify the courtesy and respect of using warnings impressed me more than I can clearly state.

Others may have chosen to be pedantic and nitpick your choice of words or your turn of phrase. That is their opinion and they have a right to that opinion. I draw the line, however, at certain implications in their responses/comments. I'm especially appalled at the insinuation that you are trying to paint yourself as more of a victim or that someone who has 'researched' PTSD for their own fiction knows more about your situation than you do. FFS, they didn't go through what you did. YOU DID!!! Just like you didn't go through what I did...I DID!!! This kind of response/comment pisses me off because I see it as a form of denying the victim's reality. You were vicimized and you are still working through that victimization.

I understand how painful it was to tell your story. I understand how much courage that took, and respect the hell out of you for doing this. I am not involved in the same fandom(s) as you, but that doesn't matter. (I am here because of evildrem, erilyn, lcsbanana.) I do wholeheartedly agree with the use of warnings, but I feel that way for some of the same reasons you do...because of my personal experience.

I also responded to lcsbanana's post you mentioned. I am horrified; it's as simple as that. This is perhaps one of the reasons why I do not wish to be active in fanfic comms/forums. People like this leave a very bad taste in my mouth.

Re: Thank you...

[erilyn.livejournal.com]

I know, I want to expect better of fandom, but when things like this happen it makes us question the point of being involved.

[erilyn.livejournal.com]

indeed :(